02 Mar 2023 10:59:20
Although I am writing this after two poor games in a row it is not a knee jerk reaction to them but a genuine inquiry as to where people think we should go?
We have recently discussed how our midfield should line up, formation and personnel, and have over recent years discussed ad nauseum how our defence should line up but, despite the clear and obvious problem of our forwards neither scoring or even creating chances, I do not recall a thread dedicated to our forward options.
We have almost without variation over the 5 years in the Prem lined up with a front 3 that consisted of 2wf and 1cf.
Is that how we should still go? If so, who should be the CF and who should be the 2wf? Naturally current injuries will impact on that choice but even if everyone was fit and available who, in your view, could make that formation work?
If you are struggling maybe a different formation?
Perhaps still 3 upfront but only 1wf and a double strike force? Dougan, Richards and Wagstaffe or Bull, Mutch and Dennison? Or perhaps just a front 2? A big and a small Toshack and Keegan or two small Richards and Sunderland? There are obviously numerous alternative systems but what should we be trying as it seems that the one we have used for the last 5 years is no longer working. Is this because the system doesn't fit the players we have (which system does then?) or are we playing the wrong players or is it simply because we don't have the players of the standard required to make it work - again which system can they make work?
Interested to hear your views.
02 Mar 2023 11:27:20
Hi Thefutureisoldgold v.quickly respond as at work (hope it's OK to)
I find 2 up top jiminez/jota jiminez/Adama was when we were playing 5 at the back worked.
With an extra defence midfielder making it a protective 4 plus 1 we have the 5 and 2 up top.
Just my initial gut reaction.
02 Mar 2023 11:27:36
I think that the biggest problem is not the standard of forward, or the forward formation,but the standard of delivery, ie the final ball.If anyone doubts that this is a major issue,just check out how many set piece goals we score and how this compares with other teams. Above all else, set piece success depends on top delivery and I'm afraid that this is why we continually fail. Even if we had just moderate set piece success we'd be much higher up the table.
02 Mar 2023 11:27:44
I would bring Collins in for the Spurs game with Dawson playing the Coady role in the middle of the back three.
Traore and Ait-Nouri as wing backs with Lemina Neves and Nunes in midfield.
May as well try Costa and Jimenez together up front and see if they can work as a pair.
02 Mar 2023 11:49:33
Interesting question Oldgold,and not easy to answer.
Addressing the shortcomings of our forward line to start with.
Raul, I believe is still a capable striker, unfortunately he receives little or no service and is reduced to scrapping for crumbs. Traore, despite his unquestionable skills is very poor in regards to assists so as a partner for Raul can, and should be discounted. Sarabia may show that once settled he may be a good foil for Raul. And of course we have Pedro to return and his ability to drive at defenders and cause mayhem may also assist Raul. What I feel that we lack at the moment is an attacking midfielder, someone who can consistently provide a cutting edge and an extra body on the offensive. If you consider our current midfielders the majority are defensive players with perhaps the exception of Bouba who I feel could fill that position just behind our striker/s.
02 Mar 2023 12:24:07
Great to get so many rapid responses!
Interesting that reverting to 5 at the back is considered a component of the soln?
Old are you basically saying our players aren't good enough to deliver the quality of final ball we need? Why else don't we deliver good final balls?
For me we can no longer play a system that requires an isolated single cf - as we don't have one on the books capable ( for a wide range of reasons) of doing so.
Fabio isn't here and in any case has yet to show he can play adult football at Premier league standard - hopeful for next year mind!
Sasa is injured.
Costa is done
Jimenez sadly despite glimpses isn't coming back
Hwang despite a great attitude and good physical attributes just isn't good enough
Meaning our only central striker currently an option is Cunha but for me he is too lightweight and passive to play on his own with 2wf.
Therefore for me we have to adjust our system
I'd consider the Fulham line up i.e. hope Jimenez can have enough good days so that with Cunha close by and one wf we can muddle through.
If Jimenez can't play then Cunha with one down the middle - Neto or Traore (even I'm not sure on that last one!)
At the worst we revert to the Richards/Sunderland option two fast smaller players perhaps Neto and one.
Net net it isn't easy.
3 years of gross mismanagement are coming to back to bite us. A back up to Jimenez should have been bought when Jota was sold but until Cunha was bought in Jan we didn't even get close to a viable option and he for me is a different option not a replacement! Ironically though even under JL we seem determined to play the same way, a way that requires a player we simply don't have!
Just read this back and its frightening that my soln is so invested in Neto who also hasn't played at the level required for an awful long time now and effectivey writes off the vast majority of both our CFs and WFs!
Keep the faith but its going to be tight!
02 Mar 2023 13:14:54
No point posting Tfiog you've just hit the nail on the head. We have good players, yes, but to make this work you need a fair number of outstanding players not 1 or 2.
02 Mar 2023 13:17:27
It will be interesting to see what the squad looks like at the start of next season, with so many probably departing there will be numerous new faces.
02 Mar 2023 13:29:09
Honestly I think go for basic 442
sa
Semedo - Dawson - Killman - Beuno/RAN
Podence Leminar Neves Neto (if fit if not then Sarabic)
Sarabic/Cunha (if not on Sarabic wing if so cost until Cunha is fit) Jiminez.
We do seem to be more organised when we play 2 up front.
02 Mar 2023 14:52:29
Long - we have good players indeed I truly believe we have quite a few good players but the squad totally unsurprisingly remains unbalanced and is carrying, for a variety of reasons, a lot of dead wood. 3 years of complete mismanagement that led us to the bottom of the league can not be eliminated in one transfer window. We all know how hard it is to buy players in January let alone with the added disadvantage of asking them to join a club in freefall at the bottom of the league that isn't in London etc etc.So assuming we do manage to stay up - and I'm still hopeful that we will - I was not expecting any points last night or this weekend by the way - I don't think we need a massive rebuild. Assuming we keep the players we want I think we could get by with buying literally just one player - a cf - but sadly as we all know that is incredibly hard - ask Chelsea! I actually think our 4 wfs, Podence, Traore, Sarabia and Neto are fine if we just have a system that uses them appropriately and the one we had was appropriate if you had a cf!. But we don't so until we find either a new cf or a new appropriate system sadly much of the time they will look bad and be ineffective! {For example my favourite Traore has had two poor games in a row and is clearly not the player he was but like 2 other players who have fallen off a cliff recently, Coady and Doherty, he is a player that desperately needs a system and Nuno designed one that made all 3 of them but particularly him top players. Doherty a top 6 maybe even top 2 RWB, Coady an England squad regular and Traore described as unplayable and admired by top managers around the world etc etc. Outside of the system all 3 are not as good as they are in it!}
The gks, the defence and midfield are all more than adequate!
Thus it is clear that it is Jimenez's replacement that is the key piece that is missing for our old sytem to work and without him or a replacement a new system is required! I have to believe that JL, free of Jeff's interference, can do the same as Nuno and find a system that works for the squad we have.
Sadly if we go down though the rebuild will be a bloodbath with most of the first team squad leaving either out of contract, wages out of our pocket or desired elsewhere and unwilling to stay. This will not have a happy ending and those of us old enough to remember the drop down the leagues in the mid 80s should understand how scary things can get!
02 Mar 2023 15:26:58
Is there any point in playing 3 up front if you struggle to score?
02 Mar 2023 15:42:02
Even if we secure Prem status the following will almost certainly depart at the end of the season, Neves,Traore, Moutinho, Raul. And possibly joined by Nunes, RAN,and Kilman who are all attracting a lot of attention. The resulting transfer fees would give us in the region of £145M (?) to reinvest. Half of that, or more should go on a striker with the rest on a Neves replacement. A squad rebuild is inevitable.
02 Mar 2023 16:14:23
Future, yes it seems that I am indeed saying that. Hand on heart, who can we rely on to regularly be on the money with delivery into the box? Just check out our corner record, for example. Well over 100 taken and how many goals?Set plays aside, we have little chance with deliveries from the right (Semedo and Traore), Bueno from the left is slightly better but alas probably now injured for a while.
02 Mar 2023 17:08:56
What gets me old wulf is that last night we are 2 down and time running out. Adama gets fouled just outside box. Kilman and Dawson come up into the box along with jiminez or costa I can't remember. Penance stands over ball then plays it back to neves who tries to chip in unsuccessfully. Why don't we just get in the box? All the short corners mouts used to play rarely provided anything. We don't seem to have the confidence to go direct into the box.
02 Mar 2023 18:07:12
Interesting responses re quality of delivery.
My view is that it is probably a combination of less than top quality crossing and poor play in the middle - a shortage of bodies and a real shortage of a quality aerial threat!
Who do we have that can actually head a ball? None of our forwards - sorry Jimenez was great but not anymore, (and don't count Costa as he won't ever get to a ball that doesn't acutally hit him), none of our mids, (who are rarely in the box anyway), and so other than at set pieces, where Dawson and Kilman might go forward, we have no one to actually cross to?
Re rebuild - I would hope that if we stay up Kilman and RAN would defintely remain and potentially Neves, Nunes and Traore might stay.
However where the cash to buy that new CF comes from if we don't sell Neves I don't know as I fear Fosun/FFP might be an issue?
02 Mar 2023 19:03:02
future I've been busy all day and just had a read of the thread and I can't pretend to have an honest answer to it tbh. Other than spend the evening dreaming of Dougan, Richards and Wagstaffe! ?
02 Mar 2023 19:21:25
Those were the days Ken,add bailey,hibbit,mcalliog
Heroes,
Actually met steve kindon,many years back.
02 Mar 2023 20:22:49
Fascinating, even mind-blowing topic being the Wolves frontline and its lack of output.
However we’re all sore at the missed opportunity with points lost in 2 tricky away matches just played. To be fair to the forwards when there has been support from the midfield and full-backs there has been fluidity up front. Raul looks like he could be useful in some games (first half Fulham) so JL needs to use him but use him sparingly.
Neto will be a great boost for the time so maybe give him a few minutes as substitute in the coming games with the aim of getting him properly fit for winnable games.
For whatever reason Podence looks off the pace at the minute and Adama has been ineffectual. Nunes needs a break from the starting line up and if Bueno was fit I’d start RAN instead of Nunes. Neves also seems to sink too deep rather than have the discipline to influence the game further up the pitch (especially in the 2nd half of some of these away games).
Anyway for me, we don’t have an effective CF option and we should work to our strengths with fluid positional interchanges during games across the front 3.
As a wild card I’d throw Collins on as make-shift CF for 20 minutes late in games: you never know what might happen.
02 Mar 2023 20:27:20
Grey. Good old Tank bless him, I don't think he ever knew where he was going or what he was doing to do but my goodness I enjoyed watching him! ?
03 Mar 2023 06:51:31
If we buy a top top goalscorer in the summer we have to play him to his strengths.
As has been suggested not only in this feed but others we aren't getting the quality of balls into the box.
We need to find a player with the qualities Jota had.
No player since has had what jota had.
Adama for half a season at his consistent best in his time with us (I don't think he single Handley kept us up infact if that was so he also single handlely got us into trouble with his missed chances and poor end product)Neto injured gueses nothing whang a good solid support front man but has had niggling injuries.
Will be interesting in the summer.
Regarding the last 3 years of mis management our club has had to go through some tough decisions due to covid ffp and jiminez horrific injury yet up till now they our club have kept us in the premier league.
Last 2 results performances I'm hoping are down to the opposition being Liverpool too strong too better and Bournemouth set up to frustrate us and went away with a smash and grab.
03 Mar 2023 08:47:27
I got it wrong forgot Fulham game was in between the Bournemouth and Liverpool game.
Pointless I am no ones going to be bothered with my opinion as always post something wrong
Enjoy the match tomorrow
COYW
03 Mar 2023 10:35:38
Well that post created some debate didn't it?
Interesting how no one has mentioned Joao Gomes in their set ups.
03 Mar 2023 11:22:29
Porthminster, I suspect Gomes is adjusting to life in England which is why he isn't currently seeing much action.
03 Mar 2023 12:30:44
Phil - good post! The key point - we have to play to the players strengths - is absolutely correct. As I said above I'm not sure the 4,3,3 with 2wf and 1cf fits our squads strengths.
For 45 mins against Fulham we played really well - why not give that formation another go ie a double striker force of Jimenez and Cunha with 2 wide mids providing the width - Sarabia and Nunes (?) and 2 def mids - Neves and Lemina?
03 Mar 2023 13:29:20
Agreed Phil and to be fair you have to give the opposition credit. Bournemouth came with a game plan to stifle our in-form team and they carried it out to the letter. Against Fulham, Marco Silva’s half-time personnel and tactical changes were very good. Of course it’s always difficult to go to Anfield and their high-pressing game in the second half pushed us back so deep and so often that our capitulation was inevitable.
However it’s not all doom and gloom and hopefully JL and a partisan Molineux crowd will galvanise the team into producing a positive performance!
03 Mar 2023 14:47:02
In Still a NES maybe we should have played Bournemouth at there game and sat out a nil nil, by far the better result for us.