16 Jul 2016 11:33:05
Look this is how I see it.
There is no reason not to believe the rumours from Spain- why would they lie
So I feel all the things that were said are correct. The reason why we are all punching our keyboards is because we have to wait and we are worried Robin Li will get sick of it and pull out.
I doubt he even has much to do with it now he will be all laywered up!
From what I understand AC Milan has been going on longer than ours so why we he bored of us when ours hasn't been going on that long
Plus we all think we will be a feeder club for AC Milan and at first this is not a bad thing. If we start challenging in the Prem though- which club we do we think the Chinese will want to watch?
AC Milan have no more history than us although they have been at the top for longer.
I think its quiet possible we have already been brought and they want to announce it with some new players so medicals etc need to be done. For all we know our new manager is already training with a few of the new players
Keep the faith. COYW.
16 Jul 2016 12:01:38
Wolf in the sun.
You're right. We're all getting our knickers in a twist. The deal has probably already been done legally. The Wolves shareholding goes through a tangled web of companies and could have already been sold to Robin Li at the far end of the line. Think of Wolves share ownership like a long garden hose pipe. We can see water coming out at the club end but the bloke with his hand on the tap at the other end controls everything. That may be Robin Li now.
16 Jul 2016 12:19:33
I hope so. The only niggling doubt I have - at the very top, people play hardball like ordinary people wouldn't believe. I just hope we and Milan aren't being played against one another by the Chinese, that it isn't the case that Posum / Robin Li only want one football club (Milan) but are bidding on us as well to put Milan under pressure - ie you either agree to our conditions or we'll walk away and buy Wolves instead, and look we're serious we've even got Mendes and the ex Porto boss lined up. (However, equally, could be other way around, they want us and are just using Milan) .
I wouldn't put it past Moxey and Morgan to jump into a war to win a buyer, and be too daft to see that they are just being played.
I have no inside info, I hope that's not the case, but since Moneyshop I just don't trust Moxey's larger sense of what's going on in deals, I think the Moneyshop CEO played to his ego and he got us stitched up in a deal that was very good for them, bad for us (and Morgan as bad for allowing it to happen) . I'm not saying this Chinese deal would be bad for us good for them, if it happens I'm sure it will be all good. Instead I mean I've not confidence in Moxey (or Morgan) seeing that they are being played, if they are.
16 Jul 2016 12:33:35
I can see what you are getting at but AC Milan are an enormous club with a huge heritage'we have a history yes'but to say its on a par with AC is pushing it a bit I think.
16 Jul 2016 12:44:34
One way to look at it theirs no news at all ether way comin from wolves or Robin li so I would think that it's all good news
And I don't think we will hear anything till it's all done and dusted
Hope in right.
16 Jul 2016 13:26:57
Re jimmyjones I completely disagree that AC Milan are bigger. They are right now, they have a hugely strong identity and position, but only because they've always had their potential optimised.
Wolves has arguably much more potential than AC Milan, if we hadn't fallen off our perch through the 60's, we'd be like Man U now, who are undeniably a bigger deal World wide than AC Milan are. We could potentially be much bigger with much wider reach than AC Milan, but it's all about optimising our potential.
The ingredients are there, they seem to perfectly fit what I'd guess must be Robin Li's agenda, he has the money to do it, and considering he does, if he has the time to let it develop too, in my honest opinion Wolves are the better buy for him offering him much more opportunity and return. And that may be it, he wants Milan for right now and to get experience of the big time, but Wolves as his real long term project.
16 Jul 2016 13:38:23
AC Milan aren't bigger than Wolves?
18 league titles
5 Italian cups
7 European cups
2 UEFA cups
5 UEFA Super cups
3 Intercontinental cups
1 FIFA club world cup
A stadium that holds 80,000. Admittedly they don't own it and only fill it for the big euro games and the local derby but still a lot more than Wolves.
It's nice to be positive, but it's another thing to be deluded. AC Milan are far bigger than Wolves and will be for many decades to come.
16 Jul 2016 13:46:37
Ulf,
I can only echo your words, that Wolves at the moment would be a huge return for a relatively small investment and the potential at this moment in time in the English Premier leauge is of epic proportions. The Italian league are embroiled in scandal after scandal and the Mafia will not relinquish much to the Chinese. So we are a far better investment. Certainly a better Country to deal with, they let slip the other day that the moment we voted to leave Europe, China and India were in like brown smelly stuff off a shovel. We are ripe.
16 Jul 2016 13:55:12
League and domestic titles are irrelevant, it's a different Country and a league with perhaps less real competition / integrity, how many honours have Rangers or Celtic got? Doesn't make them genuinely special.
And critically, AC Milan have all those domestic honours, and an 80k stadium with big support, and Euro honours because they never fell off their roll like we did. The valid comparison is to a club like Man U (that we are a seed to being with enough investment and right steering) , and imo Man U are undeniably a bigger club than AC Milan.
It's not about where things are now, it's about ingredients and potential, and we do have that potential. And yes it could take a few decades, but that's what big money is often interested in, the future world they can create out of a few seeds and go on to dominate.
16 Jul 2016 14:12:47
Ulf'I agree, the ingredients are there to make us a huge club with the standing of an AC or utd, but at the moment because of the way it's been run for a very long time, we are lagging behind by a country mile, there are clubs I could mention that we are falling away from'who you wouldn't even think about mentioning in the same breath as those clubs mentioned' but it would hurt too much to do so 'so fill the blanks in yourself.!
16 Jul 2016 14:14:57
Totally agree Stu, all of your logical points and especially, the big return is in developing something, not buying something already developed. And as you say the larger situation makes us ripe for it.
But more, if you close your eyes and lose yourself, you can feel it out there, in the past, present, and future. It leaked into SJH and he knew, maybe into SMorgan a bit (as he's definitely too emotional to be all logic) , not Moxey though as he's too logical and too much about himself to be able to lose himself to feel it. But it's there, alive and snarling at the bit ready to get going.
16 Jul 2016 14:15:38
Also I think drawing comparisons between Serie A and the Scots Prem is a bit much, you might aswell have said championship and Wolverhampton Sunday league premier division.
16 Jul 2016 14:21:25
I can argue all u like about Ac Milan vs wolves but Ac ain't ever won SHERPA VAN or TEXACO CUP -FACT!
16 Jul 2016 15:15:13
Well u got me there.
16 Jul 2016 15:19:39
Wolves are no different to Derby, Leeds, Forest and a dozen or more clubs in the league. Even dare I say West Brom. If any of their fans claimed AC Milan weren't a bigger club I would call them bonkers. Just because I support Wolves doesn't mean I should view it any differently. Also comparing Scotland to Italy is a poor comparison. Italy for many years was the best league in Europe, and could be again one day. I would put AC Milan at the same level as Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich and Manchester United.
16 Jul 2016 16:03:04
I'd disagree. We DOMINATED football for a decade (1950's) Leeds did it after us, then Liverpool, then Man Utd. Yes other teams won titles and cups but those teams were always the ones to beat. With the right investment, planning and management, there's no reason why we couldn't do it again.
16 Jul 2016 16:11:06
But jimmyjones, neither Celtic nor Rangers had the UK PM (and one with a 'slightly' dodgy record) owning their club, pulling strings and helping them like AC Milan have had. It's not just that Serie A has less credibility of competition than the Prem (though more than Scots) , less exposure and riches, or that we English invented football and they didn't - they have a lot of issues that altogether make them smaller fish than a big roller in the Prem would be.
And re clivewolves, this is something I saw in practice when I worked in marketing for football Pools, working Liverpool, knowing lots of Everton fans, living in the Northwest and using Manchester agencies who took me to Man U and Liverpool in their ends.
Due to their origins and the state of society at that time, there is a culture of divide in English football clubs, that's mostly evident in Western England. Eastern towns tend to only have one club, are all inclusive but still have an urban working class (and thus glamour limited) identity. Being class defined and so limited in glamour, they have a glass ceiling in terms of their potential reach, they are only all inclusive locally, they don't appeal much beyond that.
But in the West we have a culture of 2 clubs per town, where one was working class, urban and sensible, the other type all inclusive and glamorous. So Everton, Man City (before the Arabs) , Birmingham, West Brom on one hand, versus Liverpool, Man U, Villa, Wolves. It's probably same thing with 2 clubs in Sheffield and Bristol, though don't know which way round. Maybe as well with West ham and Chelsea (though South East is so cosmopolitan it's washed most of this divide away) .
The working class clubs have a glass ceiling in terms of reach, they are one dimensional, have no real potential for glamour, are overly urban, are therefore not of potential interest to people further afield, there's nothing for others not related to the area itself to relate to in the club. Man City were an exception, because they were naturally in the limelight with the Manc derby, and with Manc anti-social attitude linking into 'gangster Arab', supportable by alternative sub culture in Uk, Europe and America. They had unique location and culture that made them an exception that proves the rule, other working class clubs like West Brom have nothing to offer the World.
The glamourous clubs do though because they are all inclusive, their glamour translates into heroism and reach (like Man U under Fergi, before them Liverpool, and us in our day) . And heritage is a massive thing, it needs to be a former giant re-awoken to keep it real (so think Leicester will be flash in the pan) . I think Leeds could maybe do it but are a bit too spoiled now, think Forest definitely still could, otherwise I think we're the only Man U seed left.
I could go on all day about it because I can see the picture and would takes thousands of words to describe it all, but it is there and is a reality, as a potential which we are rare in having. We are on the verge of being properly massive in the most real and best way, someone just needs to hit the button with a fat load of cash.
16 Jul 2016 16:38:00
edit - fat load of cash - and a load of good sense and detached professionalism, which is why I hope it's Robin Li because I think he has all that. And where he doesn't understand he'll pay proper money to people who will. I also worked at Lerners bank that did credit cards for other people, like the Newcastle FC and Man U credit cards. Newcastle marketing was amateur, but it goes with the fact they've not got anything to exploit but their own region, so it can be 'homely'. Man U's marketing people though were so professional / well paid they were like demons, because they had the whole World available to them to exploit. As a seed, we fit the Man U mould.
16 Jul 2016 17:30:09
Re JimmyJones where you said "there are clubs I could mention that we are falling away from'who you wouldn't even think about mentioning in the same breath"
I totally agree, and in my opinion there's loads. I reckon like Fulham and all the non East coast one club towns like Blackburn, Bolton, etc are sideshows that need to be animated (like huge Bolton debts or Fulham and Blackburn spend showing no permanent gain when money stopped despite long time in Prem) . Think they are all only local interest and can't really compete, been in the way. Think Cardiff the same. Then there's the modern boutique or cool clubs like Leicester, QPR, Bournemouth, Brighton, Swansea, (Derby if an owner got it right) , that do have reach, but are still constructs and need to be animated / peddled to work.
But I reckon we, Notts Forest, maybe Leeds are all real animals like those at the top of the game, like Man U, that for every reason work naturally and with real reach / no glass ceiling, and are the only undeveloped ones left. Then it just depends which fits a buyers identity agenda, and think ours has most legs :-) We have better derby potential too and I think that swayed the Man City buyers. With Baggies in Prem and Villa pulling their socks up, especially with Chinese, we're like a Northwest pocket, Black Country and Birmingham like Liverpool and Manchester, so we offer more drama. Think future Chinese owned Villa Wolves derbies could be hot news.
16 Jul 2016 17:37:53
And I thought football success was all about having good players and a good manager to get the best out of them.
16 Jul 2016 18:36:31
You are right and on the pitch success has to come first. But someone rich enough can buy success at any club, it's then what that success means / makes and returns to them.
It's all different strands in an overall thing, if you only look at the strands, like just on-the-pitch-success rather than the whole thing at once it's harder to see.
Altogether it's like a 3D landscape, all clubs sit on top of a mountain or hill, that's their heritage, credibility, potential reach, the higher the better clearer view. And then their mountain is kept tidy and they have a dwelling on top, which is where they've been recently and are now, their success. Our mountain is almost as big as Man U's, otherwise as big as anyone's, certainly outside London. But unlike Man U's that is all sorted with an amazing Palace on top, ours is overgrown and wild with our old castle broken down into a spooky dilapidated Blair Witch type hovel with it's own resident pie munching troll.
Meanwhile the Baggies only have a little hill, but it's all manicured with a really nice sub-urban Mansion on it and a quite strict loon in a baseball cap as gardener, keeping their lawns sensibly tidy and the wildlife at bay. Bournemouth have a hump, with a huge tower of chairs and a pent house on top teetering.