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18 Dec 2021 14:30:18
Linked with Origi again, hows about Traore plus 20 million swap for Origi.

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18 Dec 2021 17:07:19
It does appear that a parting of the ways appears inevitable and you would hope that we are ensuring we maximise the return by running a proper process.
However Liverpool - despite Klopps very positive remarks - wouldn't appear an obvious landing spot for him as he plays in the same position as Salah, who surely is the best player in Britain right now.
But if they are interested they do have some assets that might be of use to us.
I agree that Origi, whose goal scoring record is good, might be a viable alternative to Jimenez but rather than taking cash to balance out the deal (and I would imagine we would expect far more than £20m) how about taking Joe Gomez - an experienced and solid CB (or a cheaper option might be Nat Phillips?) and the Ox, (if fit a v good ACM?).
Taking 3 players with patchy records and injury issues is a worry but we aren't in a strong position.
The success of Jota - who was the junnior partner to Traore when they were both at Wolves - might make Liverpool more maleable but unless Salah is moving on I can't see why they would be willing to apy his full value as he wouldn't get a game ahead of Salah.
All in all its not a deal I would want to do but I guess it will depend on what other offers we get or if we can get hin to sign an extension as we def don't want ot lose him on a free in 18 months time.

19 Dec 2021 12:51:25
Yes Origi would be an option and even one other player say Gomez in a swap deal

22 Dec 2021 16:23:47
I think some may need to readjust there valuations of Adama. I rate the guy but to other clubs he will be seen as an impact/luxury player who more importantly only has 18 months left on his contract with no intention of signing a new one! Under those circumstances I think we'd be lucky just to get Origi in a straight swap. Saddly when you are forced to sell a player it stops being about the value he has to our club and more about the value an erratic player with an 18 month contract has to another club! ?

22 Dec 2021 16:26:38
Ps- TFG when Pool were first tied with Adama even the reports said any move would rely on him being happy on the bench at Anfield. I think Klopp sees him as there perfect impact sub (he's probs not wrong there). I suppose (saddly) from Adamas pov if your going to be on a bench your better off on Pools bench than ours?! ?

22 Dec 2021 17:38:33
BB agreed a seat warmer at Liverpool probably pays better. I guess its down to personal ambition do you to actually play football and be an international player or fill your wallet. He could have earned more in the last 18 months by resigning though. Not sure where the guys head is tbh. He is probably the best frustrating player we've ever had tbh!

22 Dec 2021 21:09:05
BB - we are indeed in a weak position to extract value no doubt so Jeff will have to earn his corn. Also there is no disputing that Liverpool would be an odd place for him to go as he would struggle to get into the first team ( as he would at City as well - but there because they just have so many options rather tnan an obviously superiror rival a la Salah. Frankly if you look at for example Grealish v Traore surely you have to say Traore every day of the week {faster, stronger and far more skillful}? Note they also paid mega bucks for Grealish) but elsewhere?
Obviously it is all about opinions and some don't see what I see in him but his "weakness" and lack of consistent output is in my view more a feature of the team he plays for than him.
We effectively play 8/9 at the back and on the handful of occassions we do go forwards expect him to perform miracles against 4 or 5 defenders with little or no support, (and let's be honest some of the players we have asked him to work with over the last 18 months have for various reasons been woefully inadequate and consequently even when he has produced the required miracles - which last year he did regularly particularly in the 2nd half of the season - they missed the chances he created) and of course zero protection from refs.
Under Nuno in 2019/20 we were not exactly an attaking side but even with just Doherty, a fit and firing Jimenez and an occassionally in form and motivated Jota (none of which we now have), to compliment him he was a totally different beast.
Consequently what other teams will be looking at is what they could get out of him. If they surround him with better players, play a style more suited to his game and of course realise that he will enjoy protection from refs what would he bring them.
Plus how many players of his quality are ever available in their prime.
He is undeniably the fastest, strongest and most skillful player in the Prem and that surely means a team should be able to extract substantial value from him - but I obviously accept that over the past 18 months we havent!
Consequently Shi will need to create a market AND not deal with a single team. He needs to play one off against another both here and overseas - Traore is probably better suited to European football.
Which club will want not just to lose out on the best player on the market but see a rival gain him for a mere few million more?
Despite all this sadly I fear that we will lose him for peanuts as I have no faith in Shi - full stop.
Many moan about the Jota deal but we all know that by the end of the 2019/20 season Jota was quite correctly buried deep on our bench as for long periods in his last season at the club he wasn't at his best and consequently not a patch on Traore or Netto - or frankly even Podence
But now?
Just think how we will moan when Traore similarly blossoms and we all can see what he can do and the "end result" is reported week after week!

23 Dec 2021 00:56:36
TFG- as usual fella I agree with most of what you say. Although I would caveat it, so whils I might prefer Traore to Grealish as an all round player I'm afraid the 'stats' are still stacked in Jack favour. For a start when you look at assists and goals over the last three seasons (which top clubs will) then the stats say on average Jack plays a hand in around 12-16 goals a season, whereas Adamas is around five (with his best season being 14). Now I actually agree with you in that it's partly down to our system but we also can't ignore that it's also a large part to do with Adamas lack of composure (both in front of goal and finding the through ball).
The other BIG caveat I would also add was that Jack had JUST signed a five year deal with a £100m release fee, add to that he helped City with an English quota (which they also needed). Like you say its all about the position the respective 'selling' club has put themselves in to negotiate and yet again we are sadly found wanting! I've moaned about the back room staff before but do you think Thelwell would have let him run his contact down?! I suspect not, I think he would have got tough (like we should have done) and said sign or we are forced to sell at the beginning of the season! We won't get a good fee and not because he isn't a good player but because we have left ourselves very little room for negotiation! ?

23 Dec 2021 13:31:43
BB - Excellent, articulate and rationale response!
Sadly we are both of a similar view as to where we will end up albeit with perhaps a slightly different emphasis as to why.
(I accept that no one would regard Traore as a natural finisher but actually I think his ability to get the cross in is 2nd to none. To be fair I can't deny that at Wolves there is rarely anyone on the end of them and so goals do not tend to ensue. At other clubs though they would have players willing to, able to and aware of the need to make the correct runs and therefore be on the end of the cross - like for example Dendonker did so magnificently against WH last year)

28 Dec 2021 09:20:37
TFIOG, I like the idea of a couple of Liverpool players for Adama. Phillips and Origi would work for me (Ox is a good player but we have MGW who’s time will surely come and soon). Sadly I think Liverpool will overvalue their players to prevent this deal (tbf they always do).
One option that might work for both clubs is a straight swap between Adama and Guedes of Valencia. He would be a serious upgrade on Trincao and provide central support for Raul especially if we pull out of the Hwang deal. With Neto, Podence, MGW and potentially RAN (if we push him further forward once Johnny is fit) then there are plenty of forward permutations.

28 Dec 2021 21:12:27
NES - I guess you are correct - it all depends on where each of the parties see the relative values of the players.
I had seen that Liverpool were willing to let Origi go for £10m but suspect his little flurry of goals and the desperation of others (Newcastle post Wilson?) will push that higher whilst Phillips a v limited but effective Premier League stopper will presumably attract bids in a similar space £10-15m. But with WH amongst others interested (allegedly) I don't think we would (as we gave up our place at the fringe of the top table to them and several others), stand much chance.
But even valuing the two at the top end do we want more than say £30m of "value" for Traore?
As BB correctly pointed out many people value attacking players by looking at things like goals and assists
I think those are merely the end products of good players, in good teams playing attacking football.
To value an attacking player I look at things like can he control the ball, can he retain it under pressure, can he beat a man and move up the field, can he under pressue and marked play the ball into the right areas of the pitch to provide opportunities for other good players and (sadly of course this is where Traore falls short) can he finish.
If we think Hwang - who can't control the ball or retain it etc is cheap at £10m+ or Trincao is even vaguely not insane at £25m, (and don't let's even mention Fabio), then Traore is surely worth substantially more than £30m.
But others see it differently and I suspect that until Traore is playing with better players in a "bigger" team playing attacking football - and thus racking up the assists (and even a few goals) as Jota is now doing they won't see it the way I do.
Lets hope the rumours of Barcelona, Valencia, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Real Madrid and Liverpool to name just a few of the teams linked with him mean that we can get an auction going.
But as stated above I am fearful that we will sell him for somethng like or even less than £30m
v depressing!



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