14 Dec 2021 14:43:04
Surprised no one on here has commented on Lage's call for tactical fouls in transition (or if we are being blunt - cheating!) to be punished by an automatic yellow regardless of which team the fouled/fouling player played for?
Clearly as we discussed last season several teams use cheating as a major arm of their defensive strategy and if refs actually consistently applied the rules - because not surprisingly cheating isn't allowed under the rules - they wouldn't be able to do so.
It is fair to assume that if refs did do their job properly then those clubs, (and in reality it is most prem teams), would only have three options: a) play regularly with 8, 9 or perhaps 10 men for long periods of the game (as two yellows would mean a red) b) change their defensive strategy and take the chance of conceding a lot more goals or c) pull men back from attacking positions to give cover and solidity to their defence, (with the obvious consequence of becoming far less threatening going forwards)
All of these however would mean that their opponents - and of course that includes Wolves - would gain far more points from those games! This seems reasonable as surely cheating shouldn't pay but currently, to the absolute shame of refs and the game in general, does
Its obvious however that not only did no one on here take any notice neither did the refs or the authorities. Even in the last two games, when we were completely outgunned, neither of our two opponents were, despite their huge superiority, willing to take any chances and fouled our main/only threat - Traore - virtually every time he got the ball succesfully minimising any chance we had of scoring against them.
14 Dec 2021 17:09:01
To be fair Thefutureisoldgold foul tackles have been a feature of football for years now with tactical cheating such as, diving, time wasting and surrounding the referee, arriving more recently.
I'm not sure why the FA haven't clamped down on these issues harder and adjusted the rules accordingly. Yellow carding offenders would stamp it out, especially if like Rugby that meant 10 minutes in the bin. The rules in Rugby are strict, clear and the referees apply them without mercy, even backchatting the ref can get you yellow carded, therefore, binned.
14 Dec 2021 17:30:18
future. I made and have in the past made comments about this very subject. City and Chelsea consistently and Liverpool to a lesser extent use this tactic to their advantage. Most rotate the players that do it to reduce the likely hood of bookings. I have noticed when it is blatant players are being booked. Mee versus Burnley as an example. Anyway got to go can't go on granddaughter wants feeding!
14 Dec 2021 17:33:41
The problem with cheating ie Diving is proving it. This is where VAR should come into play, but even then it's subjective and has to be clear. Seiss rolling around flat out from a finger in the eye is an example. The clouting of traore and the like should attract a yellow at the earliest obvious cynical moment to prevent further 'professional' halting. And, I might add, youngsters be influenced away from copying their idols and thinking its game play into realising its cheating. I live by the old adage 'there is no achievement in cheating'. Sadly that dosnt ring with the generations of today.
14 Dec 2021 19:00:48
TFG- I know we have discussed this before fella and you know I am generally on the same page. Sadly I fear there is a reason neither the fans or refs commented and that's cause we know it will NEVER happen, we seem to have ALL given up even entertaining a change! They (pundits and refs) would argue agaisnt it by using the excuse that it would lean towards a defensive/less attacking/less goals game which is not in the interest of fans. But of course we all know its nothing to do with that. In fact there's a VERY real argument to be had that it would lead to FAR more goals without all that (let's call it what it is) professional cheating!
Truth is NONE of them want to actually to do anything about it for the same reason footy was 10 years late to VAR! That's cause they are all terrified of anything that might shake the status quo and more to the point devalue the gravy train they are all on!
Like we've talked about before to stop the cheating we first need to call it out and NO one does! They use words which are more palatable like 'gamesmanship' 'tactical foul' or the most sickening 'he's been clever/cute there' ?
If as a sport we aren't even prepared to call cheating out by its REAL name then I fear we are YEARS away from even having a proper conversation about it much less actually trying to tackle it! I hope I'm wrong but sadly at this stage it just seems to have been accepted as 'part of the game'! ?
Nb- I would just point out that you are of course right all teams do it including us, that still doesn't mean as fans we have to like it! ?
14 Dec 2021 19:01:42
Tfig, good post. I have compared football with rugby before on here, and how rugby handles this aspect so much better, but I found little favour. A 10 minute sin bin as a pre-curser to a red would be an improvement to a yellow which frequently seen as an acceptable alternative to permitting free play. I would introduce this for so called professional fouls, crowding the ref, not retreating 10 metres at a free kick and maybe a few others.
14 Dec 2021 20:12:01
TFIG, your right. I listened to Brunos comments, and brushed them aside with, yup your right but whatever it won't happen. not a second thought.
Football refs have been weak for years and years unlike in Rugby Union.
The level of respect a rugby union ref demands has come from years of the refs enforcing the rules rigidly, to the point the players now expect it, and as such abide.
Sadly having watched football for 50 years I have been conditioned to anticipate poor weak refereeing, and the steady demise of football as I knew it.
Sad really!
14 Dec 2021 21:10:11
These days it's accepted that players 'win' penalties free kicks etc. I thought they were awarded for foul play. If they're winning by inviting foulplay or feigning then the point as already been lost and the decision which way the benefit goes is firmly in the ref and VAR hands, hence the results we see such as last weekend. It's a sad way the games going to protect the big money makers.
14 Dec 2021 22:14:56
Great respones guys!
Sad that we all seem to acknowledge that it just won't change because there are far too many vested interests oppossed to the game being "fair". {Makes politics/politicians look like decent, honest, straight forward, folk behaving totally reasonably} Maybe it needs the odd ref/VAR offical to be suspended or banned (we all know which refs are truely useless week in week out). However I actually don't think the fault is with the refs even though they are often, (deliberately?), incompetent as presumably they are only being so with the approval/on the instruction of the higher powers in the game.
In turn though they are also clearly in thrall to Sky etc - he who pays the piper calls the tune - as Sky etc simply don't want, for example, Southampton v Norwich as the main game and can't have the big 6 not competing at the top of the table and in the later stages of competitions.
Several of you talked about other sports and Rugby and Baketball both deal with this sort of thing far better. Alongside all the measures mentioned both have team cumulative foul deterrents i.e. it may be your first foul but if the team has made a certain number you get sent off/the oppostion get free shots.
This might help curtail the more cynical team out there although of course even that wouldn't hurt the big 6 as much as they don't foul as often merely though because they don't need to - as stated previously they still foul whenever needed it just isn't as often as the weaker teams need to.
All v sad!