16 Nov 2020 08:34:35
I really hope that the Pedro Neto rumour is just rumour talk, cus apart from Jimenez he's the only one who looks like scoring.
16 Nov 2020 12:43:15
Reports suggest traores upset about new contract offer, plus he's been used as a sub recently, remind you of anythin ( Jota) ,
16 Nov 2020 13:05:55
If traore goes ( like doherty and jota ) what the hecks going on?
16 Nov 2020 14:12:11
Well if Traore goes and depending how much for I suppose we reload with 4 or 5 younger players who haven't been developed and hope that we have bought wisely and can develop a la Neto rather than Cutrone. {Lets hope that is what we did last summer! }
Or you buy 2 or 3 older players not as highly rated - or miss developed/ wasted by other clubs - and hope that you can get the right blend.
Being a selling club - which its v hard not to be given the way football finances are controlled by players, agents and the authorities - is a dangerous and seemingly inevitably ultimately fatal way to go but if you can get it right short term you might, with smart owners and a brilliant manager, be able to cross the divide into the have's from the have nots.
No one has done this though since the rules were changed - the ladder pulled up with the introduction of FFP - after Chelsea and City crossed over a few years ago so its hard to be optimistic.
To date though Leicester seem to be doing a good job and Southampton although with a few wobbles are still trying
Indeed to date we have got more correct than wrong and are still moving, albeit slower this season, in the right direction.
16 Nov 2020 16:00:27
Bye then Traore sorry but he has gone backwards this season imo, right now Neto and Podence are better offers and if he is not happy with contract then clearly he is just here for the money not the club.
One would suspect though his agent is playing a large part in this.
16 Nov 2020 17:28:39
Agree Rated.
I think nuno is doing the right thing by not starting him. (assuming Traore head is wanting to play elsewhere)
No player is bigger than the club.
Lol you watch now nuno starts Traore against Southampton and he plays a blinder and we win the match.
16 Nov 2020 18:30:47
Agreed. We will make money, and if he wants a move, let's get as much as we can. He still is a threat but is predictable now and seems to have lost some spark. We know we have to develop and sell to push higher.
16 Nov 2020 18:36:10
We have to protect, somehow all the good work that has been achieved and to enhance it. However it worries me that it is stagnating and as I said pre-season we are in danger of allowing Villa overtake us. We don't score goals-end of. Get rid of Traore if he doesn't want to stay=and buy somebody better. Sorry if this upsets other supporters but Neto doesn't seem to have a end product.
16 Nov 2020 18:37:03
great comments fellas, it looks like we will bring players through then when they get half decent they seem to want to leave, I know it takes time but I can't see how this is 'progressing' to be honest.
16 Nov 2020 20:29:48
Rated et al - can't disagree with both the view that Traore has gone backwards (probably as his or his agent's head has been turned by money, bigger clubs etc etc) sharply this season and that Podence, (although a different type of player) and Neto are currently performing at a higher level.
However firstly if we sell him we will be down to below the bare bones of players ready to play and trusted to play by Nuno.
Consequently we will need to find one or more replacements with all the difficulties we know that entails. {I actually think the squad is too small now already so feel that we need to add 2 or 3 players anyway! }
Secondly whatever we sell him for won't allow us to replace him one for one because as previously discussed players of his (potential) quality won't sign for Wolves so we would need to replace him via a a number of players rebalancing/ changing larger parts of the team.
The argument that he was not in the team and therefore only needs to be replaced by another bench warmer is only acceptable if you are willing to accept our current level of performance - which is, based on points gained per match relative to last season, relegation battle level!
But finally and most importantly if you simply sell your better players and certainly ones that have the potential to be world class ones ( and how many of them have we had over the last 60 years - roughly NONE! ) at the first sign of difficulties where will that leave us?
What we certainly don't want to do is sell him in a hurry and on the cheap to a "bigger" team and watch him win trophies/ titles with them.
Particularly when if only we had sorted out the problem maybe, in a couple of years time if we keep developing, we really could be challenging ourselves?
Nuno has a great record of developing players surely we should give him time to work out what is wrong with Traore and put it right so that at the very worst we sell him for a kings ransom and can genuinely rebuild the team without him?
16 Nov 2020 20:45:01
Very good post thefutureisoldgold mate, hopefully January we'll make a couple of signings, hold on to Traore to the Summer aslong as his agent doesn't push him to move etc.
Someone made a suggestion on FB os podence traore and neto 3 am behind raul now that is quite tasty I think.
16 Nov 2020 20:46:15
Nelly you are right it is no way to go.
However I'm confident we have sensible owners and a manager who is well aware of the dangers of making short term financial gains at the cost of long term playing (and thus financial) benefits.
However we don't always control the game - players, agents and quite properly the authorities (who have an obligation to ensure financial stability in the game) can make it hard to do what you think is the best in the long term when, especially players, think not surprisingly about their short term prospects.
As we move up and our players become more recognised this pressure increases - most players won't have their heads turned to move from one Championship side to another as none of the Championship sides can make you an offer you can't refuse.
But now we have players who could double or treble their wages - would you move job for that? - if they move to the "bigger" clubs.
Hence the sooner we cross that divide and become a big club the better but as discussed above that won't be easy and maybe that is why they went down the " gamble" route this summer rather than the more conservative route I proposed?
16 Nov 2020 22:53:54
Rated - so with Neves sweeping in front of the back 5?
Marcal can certainly fit the bill at LWB but is Semedo defensive enough for us to play with only 1 DM?
Going forwards though with the 3 of them giving us more firepower it would be exciting and I like it!
I was thinking that for Southampton Moutinho would come in but - along the same lines as your idea - I would push Podence deeper and more centrally playing 3 1 4 2 - the "usual" 3cbs Neves sweeping in front of them, the 2WBS plus Podence and Moutinho as a midfield and 2 forwards - Jimenez and one (for me Traore but I know others prefer Neto)
On that for me Neto is currently a 5.5 out of 10 player and Traore a 3 - hence seemingly no contest. But Traore is capable of being a 9!
To win the league or even challenge you need one or two 9s.
5.5s will probably keep you up but not much more.
Neto may well become a 7 but I can't ever see him being a 9- hence I feel we need to persist with Traore and more importantly get it right.
17 Nov 2020 07:39:15
Why are some suggesting that we get rid of Traore? Nuno is now in a position where he had Neto, Podence and Traore available to him which if truth be told is a very nice dilemma. Other teams may have sussed out Traores game and so Nuno needs to work out how best to use him during games whereas with Podence and Neto, you know what your going to get.
17 Nov 2020 09:58:52
We definitely need traore. For one he's so exciting to watch, plus he's every defenders nightmare, to be honest when he doesn't start, it must give opponents defence a boost,
17 Nov 2020 11:08:12
Jas and Greyleg - I have defended him so much i'm bored with it but clearly a number of posters on here have lost patience with him.
He is sadly and undeniably playing badly in the handful of minutes he is now being allocated and even worse doesn't look motivated but, as I have said numerous times, we need to solve problems not walk away from them.
I hope Nuno can turn it round as, despite stating how pleased I am at Neto's development, Neto will never be the player Traore was and can be again.
Indeed the Traore we saw last year was just a glimpse of what might be. If, as he did in one or two matches notably the City games or the Seville run, he learns to go at the goal not the corner flag he will become truly unplayable and then the team he is playing for, whoever that is, will be challengers just on his (v broad) shoulders alone.
V v few players could even think about going to Liverpool playing in Salah's spot but an on form Traore would ask Klopp qs! That is hoe good he is capable of being.
But still some want to sell him today for what would be a modest transfer fee- 60-70 perhaps?
17 Nov 2020 11:22:54
For me Jas I'm assuming Traore wants a big money move liverpool Juventus maybe so a player wanting a move I say get rid as its pointless having a player no matter how good he is who wants out.
But I see it not as black and white if he is leaving we want to showcase his form to get the maximum transfer fee.
There is desruption and bad vibes amongst the squad in the dressing room if a player wants out.
If Traore does want to stay then happy days.
17 Nov 2020 12:04:27
Thefutureisoldgold
Imo Traore in his 3rd season with us needs to be consistent every game.
2 full seasons training under nuno there is going to come a time where he has no excuse.
It could be his agent turning his head and/ or clever mind games by klopp praising him up But I want to see Traore creating goal scoring chances every game.
17 Nov 2020 12:34:51
My 2 cents worth if anyone is interested is that Traore is a very poor footballer, very poor, championship level at best with key attributes that could make him a world beater.
His issue is that he can only play 1 position which is pick the ball up on the half way line and chase down the touch line and successfully make a decent cross as often as he can. Other than that he offers very little. He can't score, he can't pass, he's dreadful off the ball and despite his immense size he gets knocked over too easily and takes an eternity to get back up.
All that said, I would be gutted to see him go as we all know how devastating he can be.
For me Neto podence and jiminez can and should work but one of two things have to happen.
1. Neto and podence float like they do (and look fantastic doing it) but Jiminez has to stay central and stay on the last man to link with them. I don't mind when we lose the ball him defending but other than that he needs to be in the centre of the pitch as the furthest man forward.
2. You play Neto (or Silva) and jiminez as a 2 and podence pulls the strings in behind where his sole job is to link defence and attack and rip teams apart as a number 10.
I have said for some time that I want us to set up with Podence behind those 2. I have always seen Traore as a last half hour battering ram as he goes missing over 90 minutes but this season he hasn't turned up at all.
My feelings are there's still A LOT of work to be done with Traore and although I'd like to keep him. If we can get north of 70mil I'd let him go if not it's not worth it we've lost a key player in Jota and his replacement hasn't taken off yet so if Adama goes we need to rebuild.
Sorry for the long post, I'd be interested to know other people's thoughts.
17 Nov 2020 12:46:25
Jas mate Not a case of wanting to get rid of him i'm sure many will agree we'd love him to stay but if his agent has turned his head what can we do but cash in or we might have another Sako situation.
thefutureisoldgold yes Neves in the sweeping mid role or a 4231 formation which enables neto and podence to go to a front 3 on attack with Raul and Neves Dendonker to support the defence on defending and go to a 3 in midfield on attacks.
17 Nov 2020 13:35:21
Matt wolf I think something else Traore brings to the table is when he plays he's got 2 or 3 players ganging up on him and thus creates space for our other players.
Sometimes I think why isn't football simple like for example Traore plays it Jimenez who's coming deep he plays it for neves or dendonker who pass it over the top of the high line defence and Traore with his pace just runs from deep onside and a clear run at goal.
Me and my mates used to do that but the big difference we were playing in the sunday morning Wolverhampton lower leagues ha ha the beer monsters standard.
17 Nov 2020 14:50:13
I stand to be corrected, just an observation. I didn’t watch Spain’s last match but caught very brief highlights, in which I saw Traore do something I have never seen him do for Wolves. This something is nothing remarkable, it is common-sense, intuitive and learned from thousands of hours spent on the training pitch. Spanish forward drove toward the bye line on the left, one player in the box and Traore operating on the right burst a gut to get in the box. I have never ever seen him do that for us. He invariably stands still and watches things unfold 20 yards beyond the penalty area., either on the touch line or maybe drifted in field. Given that getting into the box beyond the far post is common-sense, intuitive or learned behaviour, his failure to do so can only be because he is being told to do otherwise!
To what end?
17 Nov 2020 14:58:05
Great comments folks as usual! Most of which I agree with. The stuff in the press regarding Traore I would suggest is his agent doing what they do, money and trying to do the best for his client. Above all else he will want to play. Talk about our other players is inevitable as they develope, as much as we want them to stay we are not yet at the top table. I can understand as it's a short career and for them unlike us as fans it's just a job! Were I in that situation you are always going to balance job satisfaction and money.
17 Nov 2020 19:01:21
What a great thread.
Matt some really interesting points and apart from your rating of Traore ones I agree with - would love to see Podence in the 10 role.
Ecosse again the point you make is surely true - players will be told what to do by Nuno and Traore's propensity to stick on his line and not enter the box must come from Nuno - although I think it is bizarre for him to so do so as surely we won't score without players in the box. {Note Jota rarely got on the back post when Traore crossed the ball last year - can you think of many/ any assists for Jota by Traore? }
Phil you make what seems to be an undeniable point re three years meaning he should now be ready and consistent.
However I would argue that in his 2nd year he was - the bald stats don't support this claim though and indeed Jota probably made more goal contributions (goals and assists) and he was dropped and then sold by Nuno.
But whilst I accept bald stats are important, and his in the short term are inadequate, I think in the longer term to quote the song " its not what you do but the way that you do it that's what get results" is valid.
Traore does beat people for fun, (probably the best one on one player in Prem! ), he is v v quick and v v powerful. [Not sure where the person who said he went down easily is coming from. He should go down more as riding tackles/ fouls gets him no favours from refs who are just delighted not to have to make a "difficult" decision. I accept he sometimes gets up slowly but having been fouled 20 times a game must drag you down particularly when you only get 3 or 4 free kicks and the guy who has fouled you 4 or 5 times isn't even booked let alone sent off! Maybe that is why he wants to go to Liverpool etc - protection from refs and 12 pens a season! ]
Consequently he has all the tools to put it together when he does AND the team works with him, last year he was performing miracles to no avail as no one bar Jimenez and DoherTy were on his wavelength and supported him, we will have that world beater we all want.
Hence this seasons drop off is v disappointing but Phil I don't agree that he hasn't got it for three years- he had it and somehow has lost it. Surely it can be re-found and then better exploited!
Don't give up on him baby, we are still worth one more try - {to paraphrase a David Soul song from my youth! )
17 Nov 2020 19:03:09
Traore has started just 3 games this season and one of them was at RWB. Why don’t they give him a run of 4 or 5 games. As we know he can be a match winner on his day and no player is at their best every game. He doesn’t get played through enough to run onto the ball for me and seems to always receive the ball to feet. January historically is not the best transfer window so hopefully we’ll hang on to him till at least the end of the season. He can’t be that bad if so many top clubs are interested in signing him maybe we need to adjust our tactics to suit him.
17 Nov 2020 19:58:31
Interesting points raised can't say I disagree with a lot of it.
My gripe with Traore going down is most of the time it isn't a foul and he sits on the floor waving his arms rather than getting up and using his immense power and speed to win the ball back. In attacking positions, if he's running at full speed yes go down he'll probably win the foul. When he's lingering on the ball because he doesn't have the ability to make an effective pass and goes down very softly that's when I get annoyed.
He's miles away (all around) ability wise from podence and Neto but he possesses a gift that would terrify any defender. He could get away with not being as gifted technically as the others if he put a shift in when he doesn't have the ball. Unfortunately he doesn't.
When he plays we put everything through him (not his fault) and he's easy to defend when 2 or 3 are put on him. For me he needs to think quicker and weigh up the likelihood of getting past those men and if it's not on move the ball inside quickly so it can be switched to the other side where space will be. I'm also hoping Ait Nouri is given another go, he really excites me.
17 Nov 2020 20:30:01
A lot of my thinking is the basis Traore wants out and personally I don't think he is ready to earn a move to a liverpool or Juventus.
He has the talent the stage is set for him at wolves and I just want him to sign the contract or if not come out in public and commit himself to our project.
Imo he should be making his name first on the team sheet every week by doing what he was doing when he was destroying defenders.
One half a season is all he has done he needs to maintain that.
Something doesn't seem right as he's been picked for Spain and yet not starting for us.
Is it nuno or is it Traore?
Great posts by all really good reading all of them.
I did say in reply to Rated you watch now Traore starts against Southampton plays a blinder and we win the match.
I haven't given up on Traore and lol Thefutureisoldgold I like your music analogy ha ha quality.
Taff I'm on your wavelength regarding the passes to Traore.
18 Nov 2020 00:23:38
Personally I don't want Traore to leave as I feel that Nuno having the options of any front 3 from Neto, Podence, Traore, Jimenez and Silva gives him a nice dilemma. I know the likes of Liverpool and Juventus are linked with our players and we can be perceived as a selling club but look at the payment package Liverpool have made for Jota. Its in installments as they haven't got a lot of money to spend outright. Also Juventus are struggling and need to sell big earning players such as Dybala.